Pagan Musical Ranty Rant

[lady_kishiria]

Okay, this is about SOME pagan musicians' choice of subject matter. Read on if you wish; be aware I'm rather pissed off:

Okay, as I think everybody here knows, while I'm not a pagan, I'm a noisy defender of the path (which reminds me, I need to post some links on the struggle to get the pentagram added to the list of DoD-approved tombstone symbols), but as with all religions including my own, there are some lines of bullshit in it that just get my dander up.

In my case, it's "the Burning Times". I was reminded of this while listening to a band on YouTube called Inkubus Sukubus. For the record, they are REALLY GOOD. I mean AMAZING. It's a female-fronted band and they rock.* Unfortunately, "Don't Forget The Burning Times!" is their big theme.

The Burning Times, for those who don't know, is the massacre of millions of women in late-medieval Europe under the Catholic Inquisition. It was a horrible holocaust.

...Or would have been, had it actually occurred. I wondered, during the early parts of my theology degree while I was at McGill, if this was just me being a Catholic apologist, but then I found out what the actual history was and that some pagan historians (I'll provide cites if requested) are getting rather embarrassed over the whole thing.

Skyypilot's song "The Burning Times" is a perpetrator of the Burning Times myth. It paints a picture of an idyllic rural pagan religion practiced by women, which had to be stamped out by Catholicism. Tens of thousands of women joined hands and jumped off cliffs into the ocean to avoid the Inquisition.

Okay, this is a historical human rights story that bears all the hallmarks of an urban legend. This outrageous thing happened at the hands of anonymous men upon anonymous women in no specific place, at no specific time, leaving no traces or consequences. Let's ignore the fact that if the genocide occurred at the rates the Burning Time myth suggests that there would have been no population left in Europe by the Renaissance. Ten million is about the population of the whole continent in any given year in, say, 1431. I'm only counting western Europe here, because the BT myth perpetrators don't either. Apparently eastern Europe wasn't Christian, or it didn't exist or something like that.

I'm trying to figure out where to start deconstructing. I guess I'll have to start with "the Inquisition". There was no one Inquisition. Every country had one and each one had a different thing it was trying to eradicate. Interestingly, none of them had "witches" as a target. Spain, the one usually pointed to, was after Jews, Muslims, and "heretics". Interestingly, Teresa of Avila was under constant scrutiny and some of her books were even burned. She was never accused of witchcraft though, even when she started levitating during prayer. France was after Protestants. Germany was as well. Italy had some interest in witches, but they were more concerned with if you were an evil witch who did harmful things. A "good" witch healed, blessed, and did "good" things, with the end result that their witchcraft trials could and did end in acquittals.

By the way, this all points to the number one thing that makes me roll my eyes at perpetrators of the Burning Times story: it blissfully ignores what is possibly the biggest formative event of late medieval/renaissance Europe, namely, the Reformation. All of the religious intolerance, violence and yes, often genocide of this period of time took place as part of the Reformation and the efforts of all involved to wipe each other out. (Eastern Europe got to sit out this particular dance as they were Orthodox for the most part, although they didn't mind offing Protestants either. They also had this slight problem with Turks, although that's another story entirely.) Europe fell into a maelstrom of sectarian violence that had nothing to do with witches or pagans or midwives or any of the other alleged victims. Jews occasionally got caught in ugliness as well although as my friend who went on to become a rabbi observed to me, "Wow, I never realized that the only time they came after us Jews was when they ran out of other Christians!"

Which brings me to another thing that was going on. In the more remote parts of Germany, Protestants were often burned on the charges of witchcraft. It should be noted though that this happened in places *where the Inquisitions were non-existent*. The reason for that is was that the Inquisitions were Dominican-run, and they were not only anything but superstitious (they were and still are intellectuals), they adhered to strict rules. Protestants were executed as Protestants. Protestants being executed as witches was a sign of legal breakdown.

"But what about the Malleus Maleficarum!" some will say. Yes, this book had an audience and was in fact used, but generally under the same circumstances as "Protestants executed as witches". The religious thinkers of the time, including Martin Luther, condemned its use, and in fact the Inquisition came down on at least one of the writers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malleus_Maleficarum. 'Nuff said. Yes, it's been circulated a great deal, but it needed to be relegated to the same category of literature as the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

Anyway, I think I've made my point. Late medieval Europe was a gory, gory place. So gory in fact that it seems to me childish to want to invent outrages in order to claim victim status. Claiming victim status is obnoxious enough behaviour on its own. It's clear on the most cursory of levels that "the Inquisition" persecuting "ten million women" is a line that ignores the most basic facts of European history. It is a lie and as such does not serve the cause of either feminism or paganism. Stop writing songs about it. Especially good ones.

* Inkubus Sukubus gets particularly...inventive...with history when they start the song "Church of Madness" with a line about "the red and white knights of the Catholic Church." I presume they mean the Templars. Who were eradicated on charges of witchcraft. CAN THESE PEOPLE NOT PICK UP STINKIN' HISTORY BOOK!!!!!!?????

Comments

[paedraggaidin.livejournal.com]

Heh...my first girlfriend was a Wiccan and even she (who was an educated and intelligent woman) believed the whole burning times thing; it was part and parcel of her religion's history, she said, that they had "always" been a "persecuted minority." That was the first stumbling block in our relationship (long before we considered dating), when she found out I was Catholic, because to her the Catholic Church was the All-Powerful Woman-Hating Witch-Burning Monolith of Evil. She also hated anything to do with the (pre-Christian!) Roman Empire because, as she said, they stamped out Celtic paganism in favor of their own pantheon.

And as much as we learned about each other's respective faiths, which I would say is quite a lot, as far as I know to this day she believes that stuff.

[paedraggaidin.livejournal.com]

Oh, and by the way if you don't mind I would be interesting in reading the citations...newly-minted history major and all....

[kishiriadgr.livejournal.com]

Not a true blue citation but this page from a university web site :http://www.iit.edu/~phillips/personal/grammary/BurningTimes.html is VERY interesting.

The book "Witchcraze" is the usual tome consulted. It has its flaws, but it's probably the most readily available jumping-off point. Also in many libraries.

[patgund.livejournal.com]

I confess for a while I bought into myth myself. And then actually did the research on the subject. *sigh*

Even at my most rabid baby Pagan stage, I never nursed the hatred for Catholicism and Christianity that some Pagans seem to enjoy harbouring. Go figure. I left the Catholic church more out of sorrow than anger anyway

[knightofravens.livejournal.com]

For what it's worth, the opening line of Church of Madness is "Here come the Christian knights, dressed in red and white," and I don't think there's a specific reference to Catholicism anywhere in the song (I'd say "anywhere in their discography" but I only have like three of their CDs). Similarly, there's nothing to say they're referring to the Catholic Inquisiton or Spanish Inquisition in that song - it's not as if the line "Here comes the Inquisition to burn you at the stake," can really be stretched to include a disclaimer about the diversity of inquisitions, their allegiances, and their practices. It's also worth noting that capital-W Witches and Witchcraft, at least as Inkubus Sukkubus sing about them, are Christian inventions, and that the "idyllic rural pagan religion practiced by women" take on the subject is certainly no more offensive than the "barbaric rituals of human sacrifice and fornication with demons" take that's still repeated even today. Most genre groups strike me as being like most genre filmmakers in that their take on any given subject has less to do with historical accuracy and more to do with what shifts product and sparks the right sort of mood in the audience - the reaction in the theatre or the mosh pit is more important than the reaction in the library.

Re: the Burning Times in general, on the occasions I've seen the term used I've always equated it more with the general Reformation era of violent change that you describe than with acts committed against pagan religions specifically (wasn't the vast majority of Europe thoroughly Christian at that point anyway? Less with the Catholic knights in red and white riding in on horseback and burning out the heathens, more with the local warlords converting, with the attendant top-down conversion of their subjects, for political reasons, over several centuries dependent on the region). Certainly in Scotland, Catholics (at leasyt during the eras best-covered by historians) were largely victims of Reformation and post-Reformation inquisitorial madness (along with heretics, political dissidents, and old women who happened to look at you funny in the street - and we were ever so creative about getting a confession out of them), not the perpetrators.

[khandreia.livejournal.com]

*has been a fan of Inkubus Sukkubus for a few years now, largely thanks to Knight there, and owns a handful of their CD's*

While it may not be historically accurate per se, I personally tend to think of "Church of Madness" as relating more to the sects of Christianity that have and still do persecute those who are not like them, whether it was in the era of the Crusades, the colonial-era witch hunts, or even these days with the Dominonists/"Christian Taliban" that want to take over the government and plunge us back into the Dark Ages. And the "burning at the stake" line I view as more figurative than literal--the idea of any kind of persecution or discrimination against non-Christians, gays, etc., and how there are some who would relish in bringing back those elements of the Inquisition and witch hunts. It's basically a song I like to listen to when I've seen/read something particularly annoying about Stupid Fundie Tricks or whatever.

But then again...this is Inkubus Sukkubus. They also have a strong fascination with vampires and somewhat sexual themes (sometimes both at the same time) as well as various pagan-related themes. I'd try not to take them too seriously and just enjoy the music for what it is, because there's some good stuff.

[kishiriadgr.livejournal.com]

I noticed there was not only some good stuff but some breathtaking stuff. I was blown away by their Burning Times song even as it was pissing me off.

[fireincarnation.livejournal.com]

Oooooooo! Thanks for sharing your rant. I run into problems dealing with those people who have infinite faith in the "burning times," though I'm encountering fewer of them as time progresses. The way i see it, most religions have myths about being persecuted, it's not terribly differant from what almost everyone else is doing.

[kishiriadgr.livejournal.com]

When religions start out, they begin by necessity as a minority and so I must disagree with you that they have "myths" about being persecuted. I've never heard of a religion whose reported initial persecution was untrue. The Burning Times myth is unusual because neopaganism as we know it is a modern construct. As such it has modern persecution, which is very real. Invoking persecution from a time when the religion didn't exist yet is ridiculous.

ranty-rant-rant

[fireincarnation.livejournal.com]

I draw a distinction between the kind of behavior that people exhibit towards a new religion when the majority of a population is questioning, "Do the followers of X religion REALLY believe X, or is this some sort of hoax?" (ie the church of major appliance worship) And realistically the federal government may authenticate a religion based on six believers, but it takes more than six people believing something to make the rest not consider it a personal delusion. So what I'm trying to say is this . . . Wiccans may not be able to have their religious symbol marked on their gravestones or not be able to buy religious symbols/memorobelia at the grocery store, but IMO, while that's not right or perfect, it's a far cry from persecution. Persecution is an active word, implying actions taken by groups of people. Jews were persecuted in Nazi Germany. Christians were persecuted in the early Roman Empire. Now, I'm not saying that it's fair to not give Wiccans equal treatment, but I would say it falls short of "persecution."

That being said, I can think of quite a few persecution myths that still are part of everyday culture. For instance, the Jewish myth that their ancestors were enslaved in Egypt building the pyramids. Whether or not they *were* slaves, or possibly household servants or in a similar caste to serfs is debatable. What *is* clear? . . . There's no way they built the pyramids.

Which leads to the next question, . . . when followers of X religion invade another country, enslave and murder their people, and steal their property, then those people rise up and run X people out of their country, is that persecution? If so, then we persecuted the Germans after both world wars. If not, then we need to rethink about half of the "Jewish persecution" in the Old Testament.

Can one group said to be persecuted by another when they both mutually hate, murder, and anihilate each other? For instance in Ireland where you have the Catholics v. the Protestants. Is one group persecuting the other? (Personally, I think we have slow-acting mutually assured destruction in action, but that's just my view.) How many other "religious wars" went both ways, with each side antagonizing the other?

Also, very few religions will admitt that they were acting as the aggressor in a religious war, especially in modern times when most religions tend to believe in tolerance and understanding towards people of other faiths, rather than forced conversion and intollerance. Religious leaders don't like to talk about things that paint their forefathers in a bad light. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the supposed "persecutions" they suffered were precipitated by their leaders' actions.

Re: ranty-rant-rant

[kishiriadgr.livejournal.com]

The federal government of the U.S. does not "authenticate" religions at all. It's not like Scandinavia or even parts of Canada where a religion has to meet government approval in order to be recognized as such. (The process in Ontario is 25 years long.)

I DO see what many wiccans go through as persecution. If you can't have your religious holidays off, have your religious symbol on your tombstone after dying in your country's service, or otherwise are denied validation for your faith, it's persecution. It might not be violent, but it's still persecution.

Oh, and atheists can be buried under a carved atom as a "religious" symbol but a wiccan can't be buried with a pentagram? Excuse me?

[glossolalia.livejournal.com]

This is also an old rant of mine, as well.