lady_kishiria | And because I never get tired of it...

*Very* interesting indeed. Kinda reminds me of Kali worship in some ways

I'd already drawn that conclusion. I'm a big Kali fan and there's definitely archetypal crossover.

hm, you and

desert_vixen are right. Academic Army writing is weird. My inner academic had a "dude WTF" moment at it.

Wrong, I read it.

Some of the things aren't quite accurate - the distinction between "holy" and "saint" as translations for Santa, for instance - but it's interesting.

I defy him to find me an institutional example of the "do ut des" mentality anywhere in mainstream Christianity.

He doesn't seem to understand what a Saint is, why we don't worship them, and why this is completely different than devotion to the saints.

But still, cool article. Thanks.

"San/ta" literally means "holy", so yes, it's either Holy Death or St. Death. The German "heilige" has the same usage.

The author doesn't quite grok Mexican Catholicism. "Do ut des" (a phrase I've never encountered" is utterly part of it. Here is an example, a photo I took in Mexico City:

(http://photobucket.com)

It's the Child Jesus. People have given him toys either to ask for a favour or in thanks for one. The "favour in response to a favour" is also very much in play when people make pilgrimages. Jeannette Rodriguez in her book on Guadalupe in the lives of Mexican-American women talks about the practice of making mandas, promising to visit a shrine if a favour is granted.

Other things that stood out: "La Comadre" is not a pun on "Co-Redeemer". "Co-Redeemer" is almost exclusively an EWTN heresy. A "comadre" in Mexico is a woman who helps you raise your kids as you help raise hers.

The offering of tequila probably has nothing to do with the chalice. It appears to be a crossover from santeria, which is practiced on the east coast of Mexico. Likewise, apples are offered because Santa Muerte's favourite colour is red. That seems to be a crossover with Kali, whose favourite colour is likewise red.

The Church in Mexico City is trying to find ways to attract attention away from Santa Muerte, notably by trying to substitute the Senor del Veneno (Our Lord of Poison), a black Christ on the cross. They are missing the point. Even if they love Jesus and Mary (and no Mexican worth their salt disses Guadalupe!), they turn to Santa Muerte when no other heavenly figure seems to be listening. Were I theologian on staff for the Archdiocese, I'd advocate trying to find a way to incorporate Santa Muerte, not marginalize her. Her devotees are marginalized already and that's the problem! I have a few ideas, but I'm still working on them.

Most languages actually have Saint as an alternate definition for holy, following the Latin Sanctus/a (/um?). English is strange in that regard, and it is the source of the problem in which Archangels, who are objectively not Saints, are addressed as such. The proper translation is "Holy" but when you see "Festum Sancti Michaeli Archangeli" in the rubrics it doesn't look any different than the feast of a Saint.

"Do ut des" is a phrase from Roman pagan practices. If I were leaving, say, a statue of a bull for Zeus, I might carve Do ut Des or just DUD into the wood, explaining that I expect something out of this exchange. It's found a lot on coins which were thrown into sacred pools or given to a temple during the Roman period. It doesn't properly belong to modern practices, where offerings are not considered to be half of a contractual arrangement between a deity and the devotee. If I gave the infernal gods blood, wine, and honey, it was thought they had to curse whoever I wanted cursed. It's a little different than the idea of making a vow in exchange for a granted favor, and in any case is a dangerous attitude to have and one which is officially looked down upon, even if it persists in the private devotion of members of the Church.

You're right about the Co-Redemptrix heresy being largely an American ailment, but I didn't know the definition of Comadre. It gives me two notions - first, it would seem that the implication is that she has some relationship with the Virgin Mary. I've had this devotion explained to me before by saying that Saint Death is the dead Virgin Mary, and I've seen her portrayed and dressed in a very Marian way, so the name comadre, I would suspect, is a way of having this Death cultus share in the accepted cultus of Our Lady.

I didn't think, even in Mexico, they would conflate tequila and wine. A lot of folk religions in the Americas revive the libations of alcohol from various pagan systems, so your explanation makes more sense, I think.

I don't see how you could legitimize this cultus. I mean, there's definitely a real spiritual need here, but Santa Muerte runs totally counter to the conquest of death by the Cross. I understand why magic is attractive, and I really think that's what this is. It feels powerful, it promises things that Christianity can't, but it also means we're compeling the divine to do what the divine can decide to do or not on its own. How would you incorporate an abstraction (when even the cult of Sophia isn't well established) of something vaguely opposed to the general Christian notion of how that abstraction operates?

It would need extreme modifications and probably wouldn't fly outside of Mexico, because of the massively different view of death in general. Death isn't really dreaded there; even before the advent of the Santa Muere devotion, death was seen as friendly. Life is painful, so when death comes, it's a relief and you're happy to have her finally show up.

I think that Santa Muerte's carrying the scales could be used as a homiletic tool and reminder that yes, this benevolent, if spooky, figure treats us all equally because she comes for everyone--but she's coming to bring you to judgement! Since many of her devotees do remain otherwise mainstream Catholics (although in Mexico that can be VERY fast and loose) seeing her incorporated into homiletics as the benevolent power who ends physical pain and is bringing you to God might keep many of them in the hierarchical Church and not wandering off to Tepito to rub elbows with narcotraficantes and schismatics. By the same token, it might pull the criminal element in to where they could start getting spiritual help. The rest is the responsibility of the Church; its track record for being indifferent to the marginalized has to be addressed, and quickly.

And that's the crux of it, really. We need to start engaging on a real level with the poor and outcast if we're going to survive. It's what we do, it's what we're supposed to do, and it'll get us talking about something other than abortion. In general, it's the direction the Church needs to go in.

Well, I didn't read it, but I glanced over particular paragraphs and certainly took in all the pictures.

So much I'd never known.

My usual admiring hugs,
H.

I read it, but I don't feel like I have enough knowledge of Mexican religious practice to say much about it.

I read it too, and enjoyed the article very much; it was a welcome diversion from my job.

And because I never get tired of it...

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